“Birth, death, old age and diseases affect this material body, but not the spiritual body. There is no birth, death, old age and disease for the spiritual body, so one who attains a spiritual body, becomes one of the associates of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and engages in eternal devotional service, is really liberated. Aham brahmasmi: I am spirit. It is said that one should understand that he is Brahman-spirit soul.” (Shrila Prabhupada, Bhagavad-gita, 7.29 Purport)
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Friend1: Obviously, someone who reads the works of the bhakti school of Vedanta understands that there is a difference between body and spirit.
Friend2: I will take issue with something. Bhakti and Vedanta are identical.
Friend1: But you know what I mean.
Friend2: I do not.
Friend1: Sometimes Vedanta, which translates to “the conclusion of knowledge,” focuses on the impersonal side of the Divine. Well, not so much focus. They simply don’t address the personal nature.
Friend2: Why not?
Friend1: Perhaps the teacher does not know. No one has taught them. Maybe they do know and they vehemently deny it. Subtle atheism.
Friend2: There you go. That’s why it’s important to say that bhakti and Vedanta are really the same thing. Another word for bhakti is yoga. Linking the individual soul with the Supreme Soul. Vedanta study is also known as jnana. The results of yoga and jnana are the same.
साङ्ख्य-योगौ पृथग् बालाः
प्रवदन्ति न पण्डिताः
एकम् अप्य् आस्थितः सम्यग्
उभयोर् विन्दते फलम्sāṅkhya-yogau pṛthag bālāḥ
pravadanti na paṇḍitāḥ
ekam apy āsthitaḥ samyag
ubhayor vindate phalam“Only the ignorant speak of karma-yoga and devotional service as being different from the analytical study of the material world [sankhya]. Those who are actually learned say that he who applies himself well to one of these paths achieves the results of both.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-gita, 5.4)
Friend1: Yoga is the key term. It implies two components. Union, but what are we joining? There is the individual. That is me. Then there is the Supreme. That is the concept of God.
Friend2: Yes. You cannot join to nothing. Two distinct entities.
Friend1: Aham brahmasmi is one of the aphorisms to learn. I am Brahman. I am spirit. Particularly, I am not the body.
Friend2: Which is maya, or the illusory material energy.
Friend1: The identification with illusion begins from the time of birth. I wanted to ask you. Which flawed conception is worse? Thinking that I am the body or completely denying the personal side of God?
Friend2: Explain that second one to me.
Friend1: It’s what we touched on before. It acknowledges that body is maya, but at the same time it doesn’t consider there to be anything beyond. I am not body. I am really nothing. Something like nirvana is the goal. Merge into a stateless existence.
Friend2: Or Mayavada, which considers everything in this world to be maya. Even if the Divine should descend, He becomes subject to the same illusion.
Friend1: Right. Which one is worse?
Friend2: Honestly, who cares? That is like saying one person thinks two plus two equals five and another person thinks that two plus two equals six. They are both wrong.
Friend1: Okay, but isn’t one person closer to the truth? Isn’t it easier to correct one side versus the other?
Friend2: You will get differing opinions on this. The side of nothingness might be more dangerous since they have a bit of knowledge. They may even quote from Bhagavad-gita and the Upanishads. At least the side with bodily identification can have their minds opened about the true nature of living.
Friend1: That is where I wanted to go with this. Thank you.
Friend2: I will reiterate, both conceptions are flawed. Better to find the right way. Shri Krishna explains that studying the impersonal side is difficult and advancement takes longer. Better to worship directly.
In Closing:
With flawed bodily conception,
But also another direction.
That spirit exists but nothing at source,
Everything merging again in course.
As to which is worse the debate,
No point since neither straight.
Better to avoid impersonal side,
Where bumpier, longer ride.
“Engage your mind always in thinking of Me, offer obeisances and worship Me. Being completely absorbed in Me, surely you will come to Me.” (Lord Krishna,
Friend1: My main question is about meeting someone’s interests. We know that the human life should be about God consciousness. Take advantage of the intelligence that nature gifted us. Go beyond the life of the animals, who know only eating, sleeping, mating and defending. The idea is to meet Bhagavan’s interests instead of my own.
Friend2: I would think that it’s not so difficult to figure out the interests.
“The sage Agastya is of such a purified nature that in his hermitage a liar cannot live, nor a deceitful person, nor a wicked person, nor one that is committed to sinful activity.” (Lord Rama speaking to Lakshmana, Valmiki Ramayana, Aranya Kand, 11.90)
Vatapi and Ilvala tried the same game on him once. That was the last time. Vatapi was indeed dead inside of the sage’s stomach. When Ilvala rushed in anger to attack Agastya, the sage burned him to ashes through a simple glance.
Saints like Agastya do not protect just themselves. They work for the overall welfare of society. They glorify Shri Rama and pass on recorded observations for future generations to relish. They foresee the bleak conditions of the Kali Yuga and therefore understand the importance of
“Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto the tulasi tree, which can immediately vanquish volumes of sinful activities. Simply by seeing or touching this tree one can become relieved from all distresses and diseases. Simply by offering obeisances to and pouring water on the tulasi tree, one can become freed from the fear of being sent to the court of Yamaraj [the King of death, who punishes the sinful]. If someone sows a tulasi tree somewhere, certainly he becomes devoted to Lord Krishna. And when the tulasi leaves are offered in devotion at the lotus feet of Krishna, there is the full development of love of Godhead.” (The Nectar Of Devotion quoting the Skanda Purana)
Friend2: There you go. Not every cruise-goer is interested only in eating and drinking to the limit.
Friend2: Credit to the acharyas for helping us. They publish books so that we can maintain the same connection at home. They pass on the japa process, whereby sound delivers the mind from distress:
“The false rumor that Krishna had killed Prasena and had taken away the jewel was spread everywhere like wildfire. Krishna did not like to be defamed in that way, and therefore He decided that He would go to the forest and find the Syamantaka jewel, taking with Him some of the inhabitants of Dvaraka.” (Krishna, The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vol 2, Ch 1)
Friend2: True.
Friend2: Why? To rise to power? You are not trying to impress them. Who cares what they think? Let them sip their expensive wine and eat their overpriced food. They live in a false reality, anyway. You are trying to please the man upstairs. Act in ways that He will notice. We chant the holy names for this reason:
“The false rumor that Krishna had killed Prasena and had taken away the jewel was spread everywhere like wildfire. Krishna did not like to be defamed in that way, and therefore He decided that He would go to the forest and find the Syamantaka jewel, taking with Him some of the inhabitants of Dvaraka.” (Krishna, The Supreme Personality of Godhead, Vol 2, Ch 1)
Despite withstanding a test of fire after being rescued from the home of another man, Sita could not maintain a spotless reputation. There were rumors that perhaps she wasn’t faithful to Rama while under duress in the kingdom of Lanka. Maybe Rama made a mistake in accepting her after being separated, though it was no fault of her own. Some of the townspeople spoke in this way.
When it went missing and one person previously holding it was found dead in the forest, the rumor started that Krishna had taken the jewel for Himself. He is already more splendorous than the sun. Material wealth means nothing to Him. As Yogeshvara, the master of all mystic potency, He can create hundreds of Syamantaka jewels just by thinking of it.
“This supreme science was thus received through the chain of disciplic succession, and the saintly kings understood it in that way. But in course of time the succession was broken, and therefore the science as it is appears to be lost.” (Lord Krishna, Bhagavad-gita, 4.2)
Rama supposedly creates the whole world. He does so effortlessly. Why couldn’t He figure out that Sita was in the Ashoka grove in Lanka, taken there against her will by the evil king named Ravana? Why did he have to let Hanuman take the ultimate risk by such a dangerous journey?
The counterargument is that Krishna could appear today and do as He did on the battlefield of Kurukshetra. Give us the information directly. Why send a representative? Why not save us with His dazzling effulgence, both in terms of visual brilliance and spotless wisdom?